International Trip "Review" - 2 kids, 2 carseats

mommycat

Well-known member
Pictures to follow.

After much agonizing, the final decision on which seats to bring (made about an hour before we loaded the cars and left for the airport) was one Marathon and one Scenera. We were flying Halifax to Toronto with Air Canada and then code-share with LOT Polish Airlines to Warsaw. I was less than sure that LOT would allow me to use my carseat for my 4yo, so in that eventuality the plan was to use the MA for the almost 2yo and have the 4yo in a CARES harness, and gate check the Scenera. I had 2 CARES harnesses packed in my carry-on, just in case.

I planned on doing a Travelling Toddler type deal, with a rolling carryon to attach the MA to. I left my shopping too late and ended up using 3 tie-wrap bands hooked together to attach the LATCH hooks to... redneck travel at it's best! :eek: I then used two bungee cords to bungee the Scenera upside down on top of the MA (with pool noodles harnessed in) and put DS2 in his monkey (backpack harness/leash - both my kids are runners). We had: 1 rolling carry on with 2 carseats attached, my backpack, my mom's backpack, DS1's small backpack, 2 purses, and a fabric shopping bag with our coats stuffed into it. That is, WAY TOO MUCH CARRY-ON!!! :doh:

This became apparent as soon as we stepped through the gate into our first security check, where I had to disassemble my carseat pyramid to run everything through the X-ray, pull all our bags off our shoulders/backs/etc, keep track of it all, and deal with a screaming toddler who was flipping out over having to give up his monkey harness for 2 minutes (and the security guy thought DS2 would be happy to get out of it, "oh, you'll be glad to be out of that..." until the screaming tantrum ensued.

Trying to get carseats, 2 active kids and that much carry-on on board a flight was interesting. We kept having to set a few bags down, backtrack to grab more, herding the kids ahead. Thank God for pre-boarding! The seats of course are just wide enough that you keep banging into the seats as you go, and the MA needed to be lifted over the seat backs (and it's heavy! but well worth it while at destination). Asking for 2 seat belt extenders right away, I did not get them until boarding was almost complete (this was the case on all 4 of our flights). Maybe I should have asked at the gate before boarding. Note to self: bring less carry-on!!! We really didn't need half of it.

Once the kids were in their seats it was awesome. They were contained! Despite using the seatbelt extender, I still found buckling the extender in upside down for the MA seemed to work better than right side up. The MA sits very high on the seat and contouring of the seat back works a bit against it. I used the semi-reclined position. I installed the Scenera RF for this flight, which meant that DS2 could see better out the window, but could not see the screens on the seat backs. This flight was awesome (2.5 hrs long), and probably the smoothest landing I have ever experinced - could hardly tell we had touched down.

In Toronto we had to reverse the process of boarding. We were the last ones off the plane. Then we had to meander through the airport, grab a snack, and wait for the connecting flight. I was anxious because we had no window seats and I wasn't sure what the LOT rules would be. I had tried to book window seats but with it being a codeshare, both AC and LOT told me repeatedly that they had no control over which seats I was being assigned. :thumbsdown: At the gate I went up to ask about this and they said, no, you can't use carseats at all. I said, um, yes I can, and I have the printouts off your website to prove it, I just think that I might need a window seat and if I do someone needs to move us around. Oh, well I'll go ask the flight attendants. She came back saying the flight crew said no problem, I can use whatever carseats in whatever position. :thumbsup:

I installed the Scenera FF for this flight (9 hours long), though I must admit I folded the foot prop under, which I believe is not quite right for FF... but it gave him a nice recline and it was a great install, and he was happy to see the screen and the same things we were all seeing. DS1 was kicking at the seat in front of him and I kept having to correct him. DS2 thankfully could not quite reach the seat in front. Both kids had one meltdown each (it was around 2 am by this point and they were beat). DS1 cried and cried when he found out they did not have french fries, and DS2 melted down from sheer exhaustion until I nursed him to sleep. Then they both slept the rest of the flight where we had to wake them up to deplane. Again, last ones off the plane.

My uncle picked us up for the 3.5 hour drive to my grandparents' in his German market VW ??? (a wagon) with pleather interior. It had no Isofix but the seatbelts locked, the back seat was wide enough that my mom fit comfortably between them, and the center had a 3pt belt and headrest. I had to redo the Scenera a couple of times because it was coming out a bit tippy and too vertical, but after some adjustments it was a solid install. The driving there is, um, fascinating, but I actually didn't feel unsafe. (Despite BUSY 2-lane country roads with hard shoulders where everyone drives approx. twice the posted limit and people pass by pulling out in the center and expecting their pass-ee and on-coming traffic to pull over and drive on the shoulder of the road. Yup, interesting.)

We ended up being able to borrow an Opel Astra from my cousin, who rarely drives, for the duration of o ur stay. This car is pretty small. There was no Isofix and the seatbelts did not lock, so I had the Scenera RF passenger side with pool noodles and a locking clip, and the MA FF using the lockoff on the driver's side. I did attempt to put one seat in the center but it was not possible.

We made one local trip with me wedged un-happily in the center between the two seats (I'm not that big), with lap-belt only and no headrest. And when I say wedged, I mean that I had to move the seats further outboard than I normally had them, until they just brushed the doors, then had to twist my hips sideways to get between the wide parts of the shells and wedge my butt onto the seat. The shells were digging into my sides, making me imagine exactly how I would get bisected if we were in a bad enough side impact... :eek: I am such a worrier.

I also had the opportunity to take one trip back to Warsaw (with DS2 only) riding in the popular mini-buses (basically trumped up 15-passenger van? maybe a bit longer and with a taller ceiling). I brought the Scenera and a solid umbrella stroller we had bought there. The Scenera fit in the stroller with the foot prop folded under, with the top tether strapped around the back of the stroller frame and the LATCH straps attached to each other under it, and DS2 riding happily in the Scenera.

The first 1-1.5 hr leg was made in a "bus" with no seat belts. I put the Scenera RF in the seat, propped against the seat ahead. Best we could do. The second (longer) section of the trip (~3-3.5 hours) had lap/shoulder belts and I got a nice tight RF install. The trip went well, aside from the 3.5 hours I spent trying to keep DS2 from squealing LOUDLY and at very high pitch for the fun of it, by stuffing snacks in his face, showing him toys, bribing and threatening, and as a last resort letting him bite my hand. :rolleyes: He finally fell asleep when we were almost there, and I left him in the seat and carried the whole show out to put in the stroller.

The 4-hr trip back that same evening was to be on a "bus" with seatbelts, but my uncle showed up, berated my mom (in a friendly, kind manner though!) for dragging the baby around in such a fashion, and we ditched her to visit with friends while I got a ride back in comfort in the VW wagon. Bless my uncle's heart, since it's a 6-7 hour round-trip, a lot for him to do on a weeknight. :love:

Flights home were similar. We tried to reduce the carry-on a bit but only managed to eliminate the rolling carry-on, bringing home the stroller instead. Scenera travelled in the stroller with a carryon inside, and the MA sitting on top. Purses and smaler bag hung off the handles. It did seem to work better for me. Kids were antsy and squirmy. DS1 got to sit in a lap-belt only in an empty seat for about 20 minutes so he could watch the cartoons better. I had a few skinned knuckles from installing the MA. The seatbelts seemed different, with a longer non-adjustable section? and even with the belt extender the buckle was sitting almost on DS2's back in the Scenera. Good thing he is narrow!

In Toronto we had to pick up our checked luggage, go through customs and re-check the luggage. The timing was tight. I used my wrap for DS2 at the airport to speed things up. Flight TO-Hfx was half empty (red-eye). Kids watched tv. DS2 was starting to flip out from cabin fever, he was exhausted and cranky and refused to go back in his own seat after nursing. So I tried out the CARES harness.

DS is 23 months, 25 lbs and ETA just shy of 33" (I originally said about 31.5"). The harness was adjusted close to as short as it will go. He stayed in it watching the TV only about long enough for me to get a few pics (10 minutes max?) and was constantly complaining that the red belt was bugging him - with the contouring in the seat back it was floating and digging into his back/neck/head - could not find a comfortable position. It did not help that like I said, he was grumpy and slouchy.

The lap belt was riding too high, mainly because he kept slumping down, and was not really snug. As mentioned above, there was no way to tighten it any more and it was just laughable having such wide spacing across those tiny little hips.

He could probably have climbed out of it easily if I had let him continue to try. I don't think it works well for small kids like this at all. However, if it was a choice between CARES and just the lapbelt, I would definitely bring the CARES! I wish I had tried my 4yo (who is just over the stated height limit of 40 in) just to see how he would fit, but I honestly didn't have the energy to go through the hassle.

Pictures to follow.
 
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ADS

mommycat

Well-known member
WAW trip - Scenera in stroller and Scenera in VW wagon - didn't get any good pics in the mini busses.

Also a shot of the driving - added a red arrow to clarify what was going on (car passing the truck) as seen from the front seat of our car just before we finished passing the car we were passing and pulled over to make room...
 
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ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Wow, that's kind of crazy! I'm glad the FAs backed you up and you were able to use your seats on board. :thumbsup:
 

InternationalMama

New member
Yay! So my remaining question is: Were you happy with what you decided to do? Do you wish you brought 2 MAs? The Radian? Bought a car seat in Poland? Or do you ultimately think the decision you made to the the Scenera and MA was the best one?

I ask since this was what you focused on so much before the trip and I know I skimmed a little, but I didn't see an eval of what you thought about that in the end. What would you recommend to someone else?
 

mommycat

Well-known member
Good question, you're right and I should have recapped this. I actually think I made the right decision on the seats. It worked out really well for our situation.

I would not want to travel without seats on the plane unless it was a very short trip. Despite the hassle of lugging them around and installing, the kids were comfortable sitting in them, had the expectation of sitting still for a while, were strapped in safe and contained with no standing in the seats/running away/etc, and most importantly were comfortable when they slept with a place to rest their heads.

- I do not wish I had brought 2 MAs because boy, those suckers get heavy! And while I love my MAs I don't always love the base and how high the seat sits. The MA would not have travelled at all well on the WAW trip (sitting in the stroller and fitting in the minibus seats). For a smaller RF child I now have to fully endorse the Scenera as a travel seat. (Like everyone else already told me...:eek:) Honestly if DS1 still fit in one I might re-do the trip with 2 of them?? But.....

- I am really happy I brought the one MA because of the easy easy easy install and the lockoffs. I just love using this seat. It made it so simple to take the seat out and redo the straps the couple of times my mom drove my cousin and his daughter home, or take out the seat when she took my grandparents out. Just a lovely seat.

- I am glad I did not bring the Radian.
a) sooo heavy! and looong (I can't imagine it strapped to rolling carryon luggage, and I tried putting it over my shoulder and yikes! I could not do that more than a few minutes).
b) lack of lockoffs and potentially tricky installs - having the MA as an option since DS1 still fits, I would not choose to bring the Radian. If I was trying to decide on a seat to buy and choosing just one, I would need to consider the amount of growing room and the age of the child, though. And if I was ever thinking I would need to have it stowed as luggage say on a train or something I might still go with the Radian for "fold-ability".
c) lack of flexibility for RF installs - not that I needed to be able to switch anyone into the seat RF, I liked that I had the option of doing so with the MA if need be, without having to bring an extra part or worrying about the seat fitting in the car and being reclined correctly.

- I am glad I brought my own seats vs buying one in PL, in part because I really appreciated the seats on the plane, like I said, in part because I knew my installs and how to use the seats, and also because both have the option of installing with 2pt belts while the options I was looking at buying were 3pt belt only installs. I like having every eventuality covered. :D Oh, and it meant I didn't spend money on a seat when I already had one!

Forgot to add in links to my pics of the CARES in use:
http://car-seat.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5465&d=1255964587
http://car-seat.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5466&d=1255964587
attachment.php
attachment.php
 
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mommycat

Well-known member
Forgot to mention that when I took out my CARES to try it out, the AC flight attendant came up and said that I couldn't use it, because harnesses are only allowed in Europe. When I told her that it was a CARES and allowed as per TC and the AC policy she recognized the name and said yes, that's fine. She got excited and asked me questions about it because she had never seen one before. :thumbsup: (She also said, you have one of these and you still travel with your carseats? She seemed to accept my reasoning about not wanting to check and needing seats at destination and kids being more comfy.)
 

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