Is this safe? (Special Needs issue)

Mama! · Oct 25, 2007

I have pics that I will upload in a minute, but I wanted to ask about my ds's feeding pump.

It is small, weighs less than 1 lb, and fits in your palm nearly.

It lives in a small backpack , that I normally clip to something with a carabiner.

He is on the pump for 22 hrs a day, so not using it in the car isnt really an option.

He is hooked to it, and I run it to the back of the carseat, and hook it to the bar inside the headrest of the front passengers seat. The metal bar that runs vertically inside the headrest to raise it up and down.

Does this look okay? I'm not really sure what else I could do with it. I fear having an accident and it flying out of the car and ripping his feeding tube from his stomach.

PM for pics

An Aurora · Oct 25, 2007

I'd probably use a load-bearing caribiner but I would think it's much safer than the alternative of leaving it loose in the car!

jmm3 · Oct 25, 2007

I'm not an expert, but I think that's a pretty good idea. We used to leave ours loose (I know, very bad) or when we had a bigger bag for the pump, we wrapped the bag handle around the front seat.

That's the Zevex Infinity with Supermini backpack right? The Zevex pumps are the best, so much better than the old Kangaroo Pet we had.

I had never thought of the tube ripping out of the stomach, yikes. I would hope that the bag would come out of the tube/extension first. But, if it makes you feel any better, once my dd pulled out her tube completely intact and she didn't even cry or bleed or anything, I just found it laying on the floor.

Mama! · Oct 25, 2007

I know so many who just toss the backpack in the backseat. But in the event of a wreck, that backpack could go through a window, pulling the tube with it.

We use a clamp to hold our son's extension tube in the pump tubing, so its really attached. Then I use tape and a diaper pin to keep the tubing secured to his waistband of his pants. It prevents unnecessary jerks and tugs on his belly.

I think with enough force it could conceivably fly out of the vehicle. So it spooks me a little :thumbsdown:

Melizerd · Oct 26, 2007

I think I'd get a heavy duty climbing caribiner but hooking it to something is safer then leaving it loose.

It has to be above him right? If not I was thinking that hooking it to the leg of the seat on the floor would be a good idea too. Otherwise I would think having it hooked to SOMETHING would be better then loose. It would scare me to think of it flying around in a crash since it could pull out then.

Mama! · Oct 26, 2007

Nope, it doesnt have to be above him. You can drop an Infinity on its head and it wont break or stop running. No drip chamber = freedom

I never could find a small enough anchor on the floor. Any suggestions for an 07 Sedona?

melniemi · Oct 26, 2007

Can you seatbelt it in the seat next to him? Or is that even possible? It is hard to tell how big the opening is and I don't know if that position is taken by another child! Good luck.

Mama! · Oct 26, 2007

He's in the captains chair on the passenger side/2nd row in my Sedona. The other chair is occupied by dd and her large Regent

I purposely didnt clip it to the headrest on HIS chair, b/c I didnt want it in front of his face in case of a crash. So I put it behind him.

crunchierthanthou · Oct 26, 2007

Mama! said:
He's in the captains chair on the passenger side/2nd row in my Sedona. The other chair is occupied by dd and her large Regent

I purposely didnt clip it to the headrest on HIS chair, b/c I didnt want it in front of his face in case of a crash. So I put it behind him.

I would use a load bearing and locking carabiner. Can you thread it through more than one strap on the backpack? That way there will be a back-up if the stitching gets pulled loose on one.

Is there a spot to hook it under the seat he is on? Is the seat leg or some sort of bar exposed on the front of his seat?

I think it's best behind him (on the floor if possible, or like you have it now). That way if it does happen to break loose in a crash it is less likely to hit either child.

How strong is the connection between the tubes that we can see just over the edge of the seat? It may pull loose there first. Hopefully that will be the case, but I think you're taking some good steps toward securing it.

Mama! · Oct 26, 2007

The tubing connection...well, its not THAT strong, unless I have an AMT clamp on it. We have phases when we have to use a clamp to keep it from coming disconnected all the time.

I'll see if I can find you a pic of the tubing connection.

I would hope the tubing would snap first.

Mama! · Oct 26, 2007

That is a single port extension tube. We do have others with 2 ports (one long one, and a smalller one on the side)

UlrikeDG · Oct 26, 2007

crunchierthanthou said:
I would use a load bearing and locking carabiner. Can you thread it through more than one strap on the backpack? That way there will be a back-up if the stitching gets pulled loose on one.

My first impression looking at it is that the weakest point in the set up is the handle on the bag. I'm not sure what the best solution is. My first instinct would be to put the bag on the floor, possibly under the front seat, where it is even more contained. You'd probably still want it fastened down somehow, though, so it doesn't slide and pull on the tubing, and I'm not coming up with a good way to do that off the top of my head.

My second thought was to simply buckle it into the seat next to the child using the seatbelt threaded through the straps on the bag. Of course, that means that no one can sit in that seat, and it's not like the straps on the pack are crash tested, even for a 1 lb. device, so it's possible they would give. If the straps did fail, the pack itself would be less contained there than it is currently.

Will the pack fit in the pocket on the back of the front seat? Could you take the pump out of the pack and put just the pump in the pocket? I would think it would stay secure in there unless there was a roll-over.

I'm sure IMMI could easily design a pack that could be buckled in and be totally secure, but we don't have the resources they have.

Mama! · Oct 26, 2007

UlrikeDG said:
My first impression looking at it is that the weakest point in the set up is the handle on the bag. I'm not sure what the best solution is. My first instinct would be to put the bag on the floor, possibly under the front seat, where it is even more contained. You'd probably still want it fastened down somehow, though, so it doesn't slide and pull on the tubing, and I'm not coming up with a good way to do that off the top of my head.

My second thought was to simply buckle it into the seat next to the child using the seatbelt threaded through the straps on the bag. Of course, that means that no one can sit in that seat, and it's not like the straps on the pack are crash tested, even for a 1 lb. device, so it's possible they would give. If the straps did fail, the pack itself would be less contained there than it is currently.

Will the pack fit in the pocket on the back of the front seat? Could you take the pump out of the pack and put just the pump in the pocket? I would think it would stay secure in there unless there was a roll-over.

I'm sure IMMI could easily design a pack that could be buckled in and be totally secure, but we don't have the resources they have.

**He's in a captains chair, so no seat next to him to seatbelt it to.

** I could conceivably try to fasten it with both heavy straps. Hmm. I'll have to try it.

**it wont fit in the pocket of the seat, or reach under the front seat.

** If you could see the inside of the backpack , you could tell that the tubing is threaded through a hole onthe side of the backpack. I cant take the pump out without unhooking, rethreading, etc. So when we leave the house, the pump/bag are put in the backpack and secured with the velcro. Then the backpack is zipped.

flipper68 · Oct 26, 2007

I agree with the PPs of using a "REAL" caribinger and of hooking one/both backpack straps through it as well. I know some of the "clips" are quite large, so I'd think you'd be able to attach the top loop and one strap and it would not be in the way if you carry it on your own shoulder.

Is the tubing long enough for the bag to be attached behind the captain's chair? That would probably be safer but not as practical for day to day use as your solution. [Depending on the access space behind the seat, it might be harder to get it in/out. I for one would be likely to forget

to grab the bag (out of sight/out of mind).]

Other thoughts:
1) Since the seat is RF, could you clip it to the seat itself? (leave the carabinger attached to the seat when you get in/out)

2a) From the photos it looks like you are using LATCH. If you buckle/lock the seat belt (some are recommending this for FFing seats installed with LATCH to prevent accidental strangulation/entrapment), you could clip the carabinger to the seat belt on either side of the CR.

2b) Or if you install using the seat belt, that would allow the LATCH straps to clip together behind the seat, making a decent anchor for the bag/clip as well.

As far as being 'ripped' out, I've been told/taught from time as a volunteer at children's hospital and working w/special education students that the mickey/g-tube button (or even trachs) being pulled out is no big deal. [Aren't parents/caregivers taught how to replace these?] It might be a bit uncomfortable but doesn't hurt the child. I'm not, however, familar with the clamps you mentioned.

I've had some kids whose button placement didn't work too well with harness/crotch straps. That is a bigger concern to me as the typical response/recommendation (by parents, therapists and doctors) is to loosen

the strap so it doesn't pull/push on the button and make the child uncomfortable (or the tube doesn't crimp) during travel.

Mama! · Oct 26, 2007

flipper68 said:
I agree with the PPs of using a "REAL" caribinger and of hooking one/both backpack straps through it as well. I know some of the "clips" are quite large, so I'd think you'd be able to attach the top loop and one strap and it would not be in the way if you carry it on your own shoulder.

Is the tubing long enough for the bag to be attached behind the captain's chair? That would probably be safer but not as practical for day to day use as your solution. [Depending on the access space behind the seat, it might be harder to get it in/out. I for one would be likely to forget to grab the bag (out of sight/out of mind).]

Other thoughts:
1) Since the seat is RF, could you clip it to the seat itself? (leave the carabinger attached to the seat when you get in/out)

2a) From the photos it looks like you are using LATCH. If you buckle/lock the seat belt (some are recommending this for FFing seats installed with LATCH to prevent accidental strangulation/entrapment), you could clip the carabinger to the seat belt on either side of the CR.

2b) Or if you install using the seat belt, that would allow the LATCH straps to clip together behind the seat, making a decent anchor for the bag/clip as well.

As far as being 'ripped' out, I've been told/taught from time as a volunteer at children's hospital and working w/special education students that the mickey/g-tube button (or even trachs) being pulled out is no big deal. [Aren't parents/caregivers taught how to replace these?] It might be a bit uncomfortable but doesn't hurt the child. I'm not, however, familar with the clamps you mentioned.

I've had some kids whose button placement didn't work too well with harness/crotch straps. That is a bigger concern to me as the typical response/recommendation (by parents, therapists and doctors) is to loosen the strap so it doesn't pull/push on the button and make the child uncomfortable (or the tube doesn't crimp) during travel.

**I dont know where to buy a real carabiner.
I will look into it. Surely there's an outdoor store somewhere near here.

**I tried to find a place on the back of the carseat, and there wasnt a good place to hook it. No loops or anything.

**As far as ripping out, I know they can be replaced, and we are trained to do so. But I would think that in the event of a collision that was bad enough to flip us or whatever, I wouldnt want to be trying to do that on the side of the road. His stoma can close in less than 5 minutes.

So I'm just trying to prevent it from happening at all.

Splash · Oct 26, 2007

I'd put the carabiner through the backpack straps, instead of the handle.

You could buy a small tie down with the ratchet and just ratchet it to the seat he's in... I doubt that would come loose.

Honestly, I wouldn't over fret about it. I understand not wanting it to rip out in a crash, but short of taking the pump out of the backpack, I don't know a better way to secure it.

UlrikeDG · Oct 26, 2007

At the very least, I'd switch to a heavy duty carabiner and use one or both of the straps, rather than the handle. I think that would decrease the likelihood of something failing, although it's still not crash tested, so no guaranties. It's very frustrating that there should be an easy fix for safely securing something that small, light-weight and medically necessary, but there (apparently) is not.

You might consider posting on the CPSP list to see if anyone there knows something that we don't.

(The list doesn't allow attachments, so don't try to send the photos through. You can send the links to the pics on Photobucket.) Also, be sure to mention what kind of vehicle it is.

NZ Child Restraints · Oct 27, 2007

can i be nosey and ask what the tube is for?

Synchro246 · Oct 27, 2007

Where it is now I'd be concerned with the bag whipping around the seat and whapping you in the head in an accident.

Maybe a couple of heavy duty tie-wraps could help you fasten it somewhere else.There's simply nothing we can trust to stay hooked/intact in an accident (the bag, the caribeaner, the tiewrap, etc), but my guess is at that weight it's probably OK. I would keep it in a location where if it came un done it wouldn't hit you, or someone else in the head. Like behind the child's seat. If it came un-done in all likely hood it would hit the back of the driver's seat.

skaterbabs · Oct 27, 2007

UlrikeDG said:
At the very least, I'd switch to a heavy duty carabiner and use one or both of the straps, rather than the handle.

I agree.

Is this safe? (Special Needs issue)

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